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written by Mike Rogers January 10, 2022

Some readers have objected to inmillennialism’s1 interpretation of Peter’s passage about the day of the Lord (2 Pet 3:10–13). I plan to address some of their concerns in future posts. Here, I will support John Formsma’s posts regarding this passage—they begin here—by presenting John Owen’s views on it. The two Johns agree.

Owen (1616–83) “was one of the most eminent of Protestant divines. He was a trenchant controversialist, and his learning was vast, varied, and profound; his mastery of Calvinism was complete.”2 His biographer said,

Every theological scholar, every lover of experimental piety, every reader of our civil and ecclesiastical history, as well as every dissenter, has heard of the name, and known something of the character of Owen:—a man, “admired when living, and adored when lost;” whose works yet praise him in the gates, and by which he will continue to instruct and comfort the church for ages to come.3

To make reading Owen’s remarks easier, I’ve altered some punctuation marks, sentence structures, spellings, reference formats, and Bible version. I’ve also added a few clarifying words [in brackets]. All this, I trust, without changing the author’s meaning. I will also add a summary outline of Owen’s reasoning at the end of this post.

John Owen on 2 Peter 34

The apostle makes a distribution of the world into heaven and earth, and says they “were destroyed with water, and perished.”5 We know that neither the fabric nor substance of the one or other was destroyed, but only men that lived on the earth. The apostle tells us (2 Pet 3:5) of the heaven and earth that were then, and were destroyed by water, distinct from the heavens and the earth that were now, and were to be consumed by fire. Yet, as to the visible fabric of heaven and earth, they were the same both before the flood and in the apostle’s time, and continue so to this day. But it is certain that the heavens and earth, whereof he spake, were to be destroyed and consumed by fire in that generation. We must, then … consider what the apostle intends by the heavens and the earth.…

First, it is certain that what the apostle intends by the “world”—with its heaven, and earth (2 Pet 3:5–6), which was destroyed by water—the same, or somewhat of that kind, he intends by “the heavens and the earth” that were to be consumed and destroyed by fire (2 Pet 3:7). Otherwise there would be no coherence in the apostle’s discourse, nor any kind of argument, but a mere fallacy of words.

Second, it is certain, that, by the flood, the world, or the fabric of heaven and earth, was not destroyed, but only the inhabitants of the world. Therefore, the destruction intimated to succeed by fire, is not of the substance of the heavens and the earth, which shall not be consumed until the last day, but of persons or men living in the world.

Third, we must consider in what sense men living in the world are said to be the “world,” and the “heavens and earth” of it. I shall only insist on one instance to this purpose, among many that may be produced, Isaiah 51:15–16. The time when the work here mentioned—of planting the heavens, and laying the foundation of the earth—was performed by God, was when he “divided the sea” (Isa 51:15), and gave the law (Isa 51:16), and said to Zion, “You are My people.” This is when He took the children of Israel out of Egypt, and formed them in the wilderness into a church and state. Then He planted the heavens, and laid the foundation of the earth:—made the new world; that is, brought forth order, and government, and beauty, from the confusion wherein before they were. This is the planting of the heavens, and laying the foundation of the earth in the world. And hence it is, that when mention is made of the destruction of a state and government, it is in that language which seems to set forth the end of the world. So Isaiah 34:4, which is yet but the destruction of the state of Edom. The like also is affirmed of the Roman Empire (Rev 6:14); which the Jews constantly affirm to be intended by Edom in the prophets. And in our Savior Christ’s prediction of the destruction of Jerusalem (Matt 24), He sets it out by expressions of the same importance. It is evident, then, that in the prophetical idiom and manner of speech, by “heavens” and “earth,” the civil and religious state and combination of men in the world, and the men of them, are often understood. So were the heavens and earth—that world which then was—destroyed by the flood.

Fourth, on this foundation I affirm, that the heavens and earth here intended in this prophecy of Peter—the coming of the Lord, the day of judgment, and perdition of ungodly men, mentioned in the destruction of that heaven and earth—do all of them relate, not to the last and final judgment of the world, but to that utter desolation and destruction that was to be made of the Judaical church and state. For which, I shall offer these two reasons, of many that might be insisted on from the text:

(1.) Because whatever is here mentioned was to have its peculiar influence on the men of that generation. Peter speaks of that wherein both the profane scoffers and those scoffed at were concerned, and that as Jews—some of them believing, others opposing the faith. Now, there was no particular concernment of that generation—nor in that sin, nor in that scoffing—as to the day of judgment in general. But there was a peculiar relief for the one and a peculiar dread for the other at hand, in the destruction of the Jewish nation. And, besides, [this destruction was] an ample testimony, both to the one and the other, of the power and dominion of the Lord Jesus Christ;—which was the thing in question between them.

(2.) Peter tells them, that, after the destruction and judgment that he speaks of, 2 Peter 3:13, “We, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth,” etc. They had this expectation. But what is that promise? Where may we find it? Why, we have it in the very words and letter, Isaiah 65:17. Now, when shall this be that God will create these new heavens and new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness?” Saith Peter, “ It shall be after the coming of the Lord, after that judgment and destruction of ungodly men, who obey not the gospel, that I foretell.” But now it is evident from this place of Isaiah, with Isaiah 65:21–22, that this is a prophecy of Gospel times only; and that the planting of these new heavens is nothing but the creation of gospel ordinances to endure for ever. The same thing is so expressed in Hebrews 12:26–28.

This being, then, the design of the place, I shall not insist longer on the context, but briefly open the words proposed, and fix upon the truth contained in them:—

First, there is the foundation of the apostle’s inference and exhortation, … “Seeing that I have evinced that all these things, however precious they seem, or what value soever any put upon them, shall be dissolved,—that is, destroyed; and that, in that dreadful and fearful manner before mentioned,—in a way of judgment, wrath, and vengeance, by fire and sword;—let others mock at the threats of Christ’s coming,—He will come, He will not tarry; and then the heavens and earth that God Himself planted,—the sun, moon, and stars of the Judaical polity and church,—the whole old world of worship and worshippers, that stand out in their [stubbornness6] against the Lord Christ, —shall be sensibly dissolved and destroyed. This, we know, shall be the end of these things, and that shortly.”[Owen then makes other applications of this passage.]

Outline of Owen’s Logic

  1. Problem: What did Peter mean by “the heavens and earth” that fire was about to destroy? How could he compare the fire judgment to the flood?
  2. Answer:
    1. The fire would judge the same heavens and earth as the flood.
    2. The flood destroyed wicked men, not the physical heavens and earth. The fire would do so, too.
    3. The fire would consume “the heavens and earth” God created in the exodus (Isa 51:15–16)—the Jewish cosmos with the temple at its center. Jesus foretold the same judgment (Matt 24:1–3) and used similar imagery to describe it (Matt 24:29). This imagery describes civil and religious states and the men who live in them.
    4. Two observations confirm this view of the fiery judgment of which Peter speaks:
      1. It makes Peter’s message relevant to his readers. They and the scoffers had a vital and immediate concern with this “heavens and earth.” The conflict at hand was between Christians and apostate Israel. Jesus had promised to return in His generation (Matt 24:34), but that generation was almost over. Still, He would prove the scoffers wrong!
      2. God had promised a “new heavens and a new earth” in Isaiah 65:21–22. This figurative language represents the messianic age in which we now live. Paul spoke of this age in Hebrews 12:26–28. Jesus would return to end the Jewish “heavens and earth” and its temple. He would fully establish the Christian “heavens and earth” with Himself as its center.
    5. Exhortations to the people of Peter’s generation:
      1. Know that Christ said he was about to come to destroy the Jewish “heavens and earth” (Heb 10:37–391 Pet 4:17). He will do so without fail; the scoffers are wrong.
      2. Learn to live in the “new heavens and earth” with Christ at its center. Don’t stay in the old Jewish world that is about to perish.

Owen’s view of 2 Peter 3 fits well in the inmillennial prophetic model. Lord willing, my next post will show why Peter’s reference to the universal flood does not require a universal judgment by fire.


  1. For a full-length account of this prophetic model, see Michael A. Rogers, Inmillennialism: Redefining the Last Days(Tullahoma, TN: McGahan Publishing House, 2020). It is available here. For a summary, see the free PDF here.
  2. Samuel Macauley Jackson, ed., The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge (New York; London: Funk & Wagnalls, 1908–14), 8:293.
  3. William Orme, Memoirs of the Life, Writings, and Religious Connections, of John Owen (London: Printed for T. Hamilton, 1820), 3.
  4. See John Owen, The Works of John Owen, 16 vols. (Carlisle, PA: Banner of Truth, 1965), 9:133–35. This passage is from a sermon, “Providential Changes, an Argument for Universal Holiness.”
  5. The image in this post is Noah’s Ark by Edward Hicks (1780–1849). This file (here) is in the public domain (PD-US).
  6. Owen’s word was obstinacy.


Steven Hawk vs. Stephen Whitsett

Steven Hawk First Affirmative

Steven Hawk AFFIRMS Jesus did not begin to reign until the resurrection of the first century saints, which was after the defeat of the first century beast power at the DOJ that crushed the land beast, as Rev 20:4 tells us.



I would like to clarify something Stephen misunderstood about me… when I say don’t put your faith in men (Psa 118:8), but in the Word, I just mean be a Berean and I hope he begins to see the scholarship in PP, because there is a lot in it and I am not in any sense anti-scholar. I just do not look for their opinions, I need to see it in scripture. 2Co 10:12 says “For we are not bold to number or compare ourselves with certain of them that commend themselves: but they themselves, measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves with themselves, are without understanding.” I think also that God is illuminating some things because we are fast approaching the GWTJ of Rev 20:12ff, but guys like SW have us back in the last days before the thousands years even began!

Whitsett must realize that the FPist claim is all prophecy fulfilled ca. 70AD with the DOJ. Proper Preterists on the other hand, such as myself, claim that we are now in the time when Satan (satan is used as a personification of evil) is released from his prison to go out and deceive the nations to war with G&M on the world scene (Rev 20:3 and 7ff), quite a difference.  Yet he claims there is not any or much difference. Thus, Whitsett does not know my position and is therefore debating something he does not comprehend, which is part of the problem. 

Definitions and Abbreviations:

The “Bible” is the 66 books of the Old and New Testament scriptures.

Resurrection of the dead = a person risen back to life in a new spiritual body 1Co 15:44 (with the same spirit and soul).

PAROUSIA = the accession of Christ to, and His presence on, His heavenly throne of glory, the promised throne of David.

Epiphaneia = a visible, manifestation, appearing of what was hidden previously.

DOJ = destruction of Jerusalem (ca. 70AD)

FPist(s) / Fpism = Full Preterists / Full Preterism

GWTJ = great white throne judgment of Rev 20:12ff

G&M = Gog and Magog

SW = Stephen Whitsett


The destruction of Jerusalem was the visible and dramatic manifestation (“the sign” Mat 24:2, 3) to Christ’s disciples that he would at that time ascend to the throne of His glory in heaven as King of kings and Lord of lords, around the time of God’s judgment upon Jerusalem, as he said he would (ca. 70AD see Luk 21:28;Mat 21:43 when the kingdom was taken from the Jews); and His accession to that throne would not be visible to them (Luk 17:20), thus Christ gave them this sign

Luk 17:20  And being questioned by the Pharisees as to when the kingdom of God comes, He answered them and said, The kingdom of God does not come with observation;

Nature and Time of Parousia

The Parousia most definitely occurred and was “visible” circa AD70 to the resurrected saints. Thus, we hold that the Parousia was the accession and continuing presence of Jesus to/on His throne of Glory along with the resurrected saints. 

Mat 24:30  And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the heavens. And then all the tribes of the land will wail. And they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and much glory. (cp. Dan. 7:13)

Mat 24:31  And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from the ends of the heavens to their ends.

This great ca. 70AD event that occurred within a generation (Mat 24:34) marked the beginning of the Millennium with Jesus reigning with his Saints (Rev 20:4), subduing the nations of mankind (1Co 15:23-28) from the heavenly realm, reigning over the earth (Rev 5:10 see the LITV). It is a  heavenly reign (see 1Pe 1:4; Col 1:5; 2Tim 4:18).

Heb 10:36  for you have need of endurance that, doing the will of God, you should be requited with the promise.”

Heb 10:37  For still how very little, He Who is coming will be arriving and not delaying.”

Requit with the promise is more than coming (without delay) in judgment alone, as futurists assert.

Everything from this point forward is rebuttal:

SW, in this First Affirmative video, states the following scripture affirms Jesus receives his throne and kingdom at his ascension. (As you may already see, there is no scriptural evidence for this in the following verses, as I shall show):

Dan 7:14  And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all the peoples, nations, and languages should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

Col 3:1  If then ye were raised together with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated on the right hand of God.

Col 3:2  Set your mind on the things that are above, not on the things that are upon the earth.

Col 3:3  For ye died, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

Col 3:4  When Christ, who is our life, shall be manifested, then shall ye also with him be manifested in glory.

IV GOSPEL 5:26-27 (NOT WRITTEN BY JOHN, there is not one verse to justify the John idea, thus we shouldn’t say it) For as the Father hath life in himself, even so gave he to the Son also to have life in himself:

27and he gave him authority to execute judgment, because he is a son of man.

  • Act 2:32  This Jesus did God raise up, whereof we all are witnesses.
  • Act 2:33  Being therefore by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he hath poured forth this, which ye see and hear.
  • Act 2:34  For David ascended not into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
  • Act 2:35  Till I make thine enemies the footstool of thy feet.

RESPONSE (Rebuttal) to SW’s above alleged scriptural proofs:

We who hold a Proper Preterist perspective firmly reject any eschatological view (e.g. the FPist view) which posits the Millennium of Christ as terminating in AD70. Such views overtly violate Christ’s clear statements concerning when He would officially take seat with his Saints on the Throne of His Glory (Throne of David) in Mat 19:28, Mat 25:31, & Rev 3:21.      

These (above 3) verses alone clearly establish our position, that ca. 40 years after Jesus’ ascension, at the DOJ, when the kingdom was officially taken from apostate Judah Mat 21:43, Jesus began his reign with his faithful overcomers.

But let’s get to SW’s primary proof in Col 3.

Collosians 3 makes no suggestion that the reign of Christ and his saints began, as my three witnesses (i.e. Mat 19:28, 25:31 and Rev 3:21) above show:

1. “Putting on the new self” as being described in Col 3 is the new spirit and this is further clarified by point #2…

2. The same authors in numerous scriptures keep saying that they are still looking for the resurrection in a new body when Christ returns and even Col 3:4 states “SHALL BE MADE MANIFEST,” future tense. Trying to make Col 3:1 refer to the resurrection is simply ludicrous, you can’t have it both ways, it is the resurrection/new body, but yet they are still looking for it!?!?

In baptism we are raised together with Christ, a burial in water “likened to Christ’s death”. This is even the point of Col 3:3  (when did we die? How?)….when we are 1. given a new spirit 2. where in we were raised to walk in newness of life while still in these bodies (not our new resurrected bodies) …the newness we are raised to is a newness of life with a new spirit.

Nature and Time of Resurrection

In a Proper Preterism perspective we note that scripture seems to speak of “resurrection” in terms of a singular event in time coincident with the Parousia and Epiphaneia of Christ. We think this is because the FIRST resurrection, which is of the saints only, is given emphasis and priority over “the rest of the dead” and that is what is being referred to. Thus, we acknowledge that Revelation 20 posits a First resurrection of saints only separated by the Millennial Reign of Christ with his saints, then the rest of the dead are raised after the thousands years.  

We think those who only see a single resurrection event are interpreting the more specific and detailed resurrection passages like 1Co 15; 1Th 4 and Rev 20:4-6, 12 in light of the vague verses such as Dan 12:2 and Acts 24:15, which should be the other way around.  In fact, we find evidence that the extant manuscripts actually support the inclusion of Rev 20:5a rather than exclusion. 2) Even if one were to eliminate Rev 20:5a from the texts, the very same information is given in Rev 20:6, where protos anastasis most certainly implies a secondary resurrection event. We therefore hold that the First Resurrection pertained to the faithful dead in Christ, and took place circa AD70. 

The First Resurrection began the Millennial Reign of Christ with his Saints. Rev 20:4 suggests it occurs AFTER the defeat of the first century land beast power. Thus, we believe the Millennium reign is ongoing today as Christ continues to subdue the nations with a rod of iron and through his gospel. The second resurrection and judgment of “the rest of the dead”(GWTJ Rev 20:12) will occur at some point yet future to us after Christ’s adversaries are destroyed (1Co 15:25; Rev 20:10). Adversary having currently renewed his deception to the nations during the “little while” as Rev 20:3, 7-8 anticipated. 

While we believe Christ’s kingdom will never end, we do see an end to some Messianic duties once the nations are fully subdued and we see this to be the point at which Christ delivers the kingdom to the Father according to 1Co 15:23-28, having accomplished all work the Father gave him in the reconciliation of all things.      

1Th 4:16  Because the Lord Himself shall come down from Heaven with a commanding shout of an archangel’s voice, and with God’s trumpet. And the dead in Christ will rise —> FIRST.<—

Rev 20:4  And I perceived thrones, and they are seated on them, and judgment was granted to them. And the souls of those executed because of the testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who do not worship the beast or its image, and did not get the emblem on their forehead and on their hand- 

—> they also live and reign with Christ a thousand years.” <— 

Rev 20:5  (The rest of the dead do not live until the thousand years should be finished.) This is the —> FIRST resurrection.<————————


Some FPists use the following verse in Mat 28:18 to claim Jesus Reigns at his Ascension:

  • Jesus “being” given power and authority:
  • Mat 28:18  And Jesus came to them and spake unto them, saying, All authority hath been given (εδοθη is a different derivative of the words used below in Luk 22:19) unto me in heaven and on earth.

Luk 22:19  And taking a loaf, giving (εδωκεν, here is an aorist tense) thanks, He broke, and gave to them, saying, This is My body being given (διδομενον, ) (however, here διδομενον is used in the present tense) for you. This do to My remembrance.

Notice how, in Luk 22:19 above, the same Greek word, but in a different tense is used differently?:

Greek NT WH+ (Westcott-Hort+) εδωκεν used in Luk 22:19 above:


Part of Speech: Verb

Tense: Aorist

Voice: Active

Mood: Indicative

Person: third [he/she/it]

Number: Singular

  • My Greek lexicon disagrees with the translations I have and I would not had noticed (probably in the same sense the translators didn’t notice) unless I had first learned about Proper Preterism, which informs me of the sequence regarding Christ’s kingdom.
  • “And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority is (third person singular present of be.) given (εδοθη (5681)) to Me in heaven and on earth.” (Mt 28:18)  Alternate “is being given” (present participle of be.)
  • 5681 TVM: Aorist 5777, Passive 5786, Indicative 5791, Count: 602
  • 5777 Tense-Aorist
  • The aorist tense is characterized by its emphasis on punctiliar action; that is, the concept of the verb is considered without regard for past, present, or future time.  There is no direct or clear English equivalent for this tense, though it is generally rendered as a simple past tense in most translations.
  • The aorist tense, in most cases, cannot be rendered accurately in an English translation,  The common practice of rendering a Greek aorist by a simple English past tense is seriously flawed in many cases.  It would be better to render these Greek aorist tense verbs into English as a simple present-continuous English tense.
  • In the case of Matt 28:19, the KJV makes an attempt to thus render the Greek aorist tense as it rendered the Greek εδοθη aorist, passive, indicative tense as “is (third person singular present of be) given”   Alternate “is being given” (present participle of be)

a·o·rist (ā′ər-ĭst) n. 1. A form of a verb in some languages, such as Classical Greek, that expresses action without indicating its completion or continuation.

Aorist definition is – an inflectional form of a verb typically denoting simple occurrence of an action without reference to its completeness, duration, or repetition.

The word comes from Ancient Greek ἀόριστος aóristos “indefinite”,[1] it described an action “pure and simple”.

“is given”(KJV) in the Greek it is an aorist tense verb. The English language does not have an aorist tense verb so there is no direct equivalent translation of this Greek verb into English. For reasons, apparently known only to them, many translators have generally chosen to translate this aorist tense verse into an English past tense; however, a better translation would be the English present, continuous tense verb “is being given” an action that was taking place in the first century.

  • Jesus “being” given power and authority:
  • Mat 28:18  And Jesus came to them and spake unto them, saying, All authority being given unto me in heaven and on earth.
  • Jesus delivers kingdom to the Father after all power and authority is put under his feet (submission):
  • Then the end will come, when he [Christ] gives over the kingdom to God the Father —> after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power” <— (1Co 15:24).  

  • The point being that Jesus does not acquire his power and authority at the end as in 1Co 15:24 says “Then, the end” and Jesus still has to subdue, smash, dash enemy authorities that will  surrender, the end in v.24 is after the thousand years because the “Then” denotes an interval of time after His parousia in v.23.

When Jesus said “all things are put under him,” referencing Jesus’ statement in Mat 28:18, it is manifest that the Father is excepted, who did put all things under the authority of Jesus.” (1Co 15:27)  

That is what happens before he goes forth and rules in the midst of his enemies. He is, to this day, the rider on the white horse dashing the nations with a rod of iron because under the new covenant it is Christ Himself who “judges and makes war” against the wicked (Psa 2:9; Rev 2: 27, 12:5, 19:11-16). The phrase “put all things under your feet” stems from a Hebrew idiom which literally in English means “He will stomp them into submission to His authority.” 1Co 15:24-27 is a commentary on Psalm 110:2ff; et al.

There is a difference between putting all things under you (placed in a position of authority/given the crown) and putting under/an end to all things (an activity that destroys one’s enemies).

The activity that the king engages in to put down all reign and subdue all things comes AFTER the status has been granted and it is usually accomplished “after a much later time” and in the case of Christ it takes place after the figurative thousands years + a little season (Rev 20:3), take note of the following::

Heb 2:8 THOU HAST PUT ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS FEET. (Placed in position of authority/King crowned) For in that HE PUT ALL IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIM, (author acknowledges that Jesus had already at that present time been placed in that position of authority/given the crown) he left nothing that is not put under him. BUT NOW WE SEE NOT YET all things PUT UNDER HIM (“put under,” the actual activity/destruction not just the authority, having a crown that ends or puts an end to all enemies’ rule and authority/everything under/subdued in reality not just in authority.)


Is there more scripture that shows Jesus did not begin to reign in his kingdom at his ascension as FP’m implies and as Stephen Whitsett implies?

  • Hebrews 10:13 is the commentary on Psalm 110:1 within the NT:
  • “But this man (Jesus), after he had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the right hand of God; and from there He is waiting for His enemies to be made his footstool.” (Heb 10:12-13, emphasis and commentary added) 
  • Hebrews was written ca. 64 AD, several years after 1Corinthians was written. According to the author of Hebrews, Jesus was still sitting at the right hand of the Father in ca. 64 AD, because He was still waiting for His enemies to be made His footstool
  • So, Stephen assumes Jesus is reigning immediately upon his ascension because he ignores the “until” of Psa 110; it says he sits at the Father’s right hand (cf. the Father’s throne Rev 3:21), “until” he takes his own throne and begins to reign. 

Heb 9:8  the Holy Spirit this signifying, that the way into the holy place hath not yet been made manifest, while the first tabernacle is yet standing;

  • The 1st century Apostles were sealed with the spirit (30-70AD), which was the EARNEST DOWN PAYMENT Eph 1:13-14; 2Co 1:22, but did NOT have salvation at the cross and resurrection of Christ, but were waiting for his parousia (Mat 24:2-3, 30) and the sign of it.
  • Heb 9:28 and Rom 13:11 are a couple verses that show salvation does not occur at His cross and resurrection as Full Preterism assumes, because there is a process to our redemption — HIS RETURN “A SECOND TIME” HAS TO ALSO HAVE OCCURRED.  It’s the process of redemption and that process ended with the destruction of the old system ca. 70AD, then redemption/salvation began in the promised kingdom. 
  • Heb 9:28 so Christ also, having been once offered to bear the sins of many, shall appear “A SECOND TIME,” apart from sin, to them that wait for him, “UNTO SALVATION.” 
  • Romans 13:11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for NOW is our salvation “NEARER” [near is not here] than when we believed. 
  • (Carefully consider this verse with Heb 9:28 above to see they did not have it yet, until His return.)
  • I repeat, Rom 13:11 (above verse) salvation is close.
  • Then, in the following verse, we see Salvation is here ….
  • Rev 12:10 And I hear a loud voice in heaven saying, “Just now came the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of His Christ, [WHEN?] for the accuser of our brethren was cast out, who was accusing them before our God day and night.” (CLV)
  • We see the accuser of our brethren having been cast out at the DOJ, because over 30 times in the NT, none other than the Jews are called the accusers of our brethren and they were indeed cast out of their city and kingdom as Jesus predicted in Mat 21:43, ca. 70AD and the verse i just read tells us that is the time of the inauguration of Christ’s kingdom!
  • So, if salvation and Christ’s kingdom came when satan or adversary was cast out, then it did not come at Christ’s ascension because Jesus was seated at the right hand of the Father as the prince in waiting (see Dan 9:25-26; Act 5:31) about 40 years before he became king!
  • Then in the Parousia, Jesus leaves His Father’s throne and ascends to his throne, i.e. the promised throne of His Father David when He invites His faithful “overcomers” to ascend to heaven (by resurrection) and “sit with Me in My throne even as I also overcame and sat with My Father in His throne.” Once He is sitting on HIS OWN throne God “sends the rod of (Jesus’) strength out or Zion” and so Jesus reigns “in the midst of His enemies.”  Paul, commenting on this passage, states that, “He must reign until…He has put down all rule and all authority and power…when all things shall be subdued unto Him…” in our future.
  • The parousia consists of his reign after the accession to His promised throne (Mat 19:28; Luk 1:32-33) – and is not only the wrath of God’s judgment as SW espouses — “the Day of the Lord” begins with the wrath of God on the 1st century Apostate Jews and shines through with the Parousia (presence) of Christ, still ongoing today. 

In Summary, Before Jesus became King, he was the prince in waiting (see Dan 9:25-26; Act 5:31). Stephen mocked at the idea of someone, such as myself, coming to realize what the majority does not know. IMV, he lacks faith that God reveals to those who diligently search and do not depend on others to come up with our conclusions. 2Co 10:12 says “For we are not bold to number or compare ourselves with certain of them that commend themselves: but they themselves, measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves with themselves, are without understanding.” I think also that God is illuminating some things because we are fast approaching the GWTJ of Rev 20:12ff, but guys like SW have us back in the last days before the thousands years even began!

What is “firmly established” here is the usual futurist hot air bombast and theological muddle that is preterist denying logic. 

There is a difference between being given an inheritance versus taking possession of said inheritance. Just as the roles of hierarchy shows us there is a difference between given power in authority over all things such as when a prince is seated and when a king is first crowned, in this case we have shown was ca. 70AD, and when the king actually wages war, hunts down and captures, then destroys all his enemies. That is a process, not a single event, just as setting up the kingdom is a process, not a single event. 

Scriptures say Jesus would return when his kingdom is prepared (IV gospel -not written by John- 14:3, After he first ascended and obtained it. In foreknowledge of himself leaving he said, speaking to his disciples “and if I go on and prepare for you a place, again do I come, and will receive you unto myself, that where I am you also may be;” Jesus is not saying he will prepare it here, but that he will prepare it in heaven where he ascends to, then comes back to take his sheep to be at that place in heaven with him. 

We who know Proper Preterism think since the DOJ (as Christ said would be the sign of his parousia) followers of Christ have been risen to that heavenly kingdom and have been populating it since. Even in Jesus’ own parables he alluded to this process. Jesus left to prepare it and would return to receive his own, in the soon to be harvest, in the last days (Heb 1:2 says that THEY were in). Stephen should realize, according to audience relevance, it was they (not us) living in those last days.

I recently watched a news video that had a picture of a lion in the background with the words HAVE NO FEAR, CHRIST IS NEAR. To someone, like myself, with a proper preterist perspective that is denying Christ’s own words, because Christ is present and has been present when you understand he is to reign in the midst of as he conquers his enemies. It is only when he is finished subduing those enemies God will be all in all. So Christ is and has been here (not near) for almost 2000 years.

 ἀόριστοςLiddell, Henry GeorgeScott, RobertA Greek–English Lexicon at the Perseus Project

The (ca. 70ad) Binding, The Release (a figurative thousand years after ca. 70ad) & Coming Destruction of Satan

by Steven Hawk © 2019 This content may be cited with written credits. All Rights Reserved.

The following document contains:

1. Who is Satan

2. Identity of this Accuser of Our Brethren

3. The Abyss Identified & Explained

4. Why the Thousand Years is Longer than a Thousand — it Began ca. 70AD and How We KNOW When it Ends

5. The Release of Satan, the Christian Adversary, the Accuser

6. The Destruction of the Christian Adversary

In the Book of Revelation 20:2-3, 7-8 and 10, this Christian Adversary called Satan that is personified as an individual serpent/dragon or monster, is described in chapter 20, in the above verses, as being first bound, then released (after the thousand years) and finally destroyed in v.10. If we are first open to the idea these things are highly symbolized to mean something else —but are still very real, no one is saying they are not real— and that they were given to be understood, then they will be understandable.

First, the length of the binding of this Adversary (Grk. Satanas), which the Bible uses as a personification of evil, is not recorded as being ONE thousand, it just says thousand (Grk. xilia), and since all of Revelation has figures of speech, metaphors, analogies (e.g. there’s a great dragon, a chain, an abyss etc.), nothing is literal in that passage, so the thousand years is not either. To try and make a case that the thousand years is, is to make no sense out of anything else either. 

In this document we will also show you (besides the reason just given it is figurative) the thousand years in chapter 20 denotes a long indefinite period and why it cannot mean a short period.

Who is Satan?

Contrary to popular belief and Christian tradition (which we assert to be Christian Myth and Jewish Fables that turn us from the truth) the Bible teaches there are several different Satans in scripture. The English word “satan” is actually a transliteration of an ancient Aramaic word that was transliterated into Hebrew, then into Greek (Satanas) and finally into English and is consistently used a personification of evil, whether the context is an entity or an individual.

While the word Satan means a specific adversary (we will soon get to that), it is nonetheless a word which actually means “adversary” as translated in the YLT (we are not partial to the YLT either), and is better understood that way in the English language scriptures –just as the English word “Devil” is best understood if translated “Slanderer,” then add “of Christianity” after it for better clarity. Thus, the Greek word transliterated as Satan actually means “the adversary” and from this point on we will try to simply use the word adversary. For more on this read Book 2 of the Christian MythBuster Series called “The Master of Deception.”

The past hundred years or so of study has brought an illumination to the problems with the traditional Satan, but most cannot or will not accept the basic truth that many of these passages are actually describing first century events pertaining to the Jewish leadership persecuting the Christians in the last days. Proper Preterism knows the binding of Satan WAS A LAST DAY’S EVENT (i.e. a thing that was “shortly” to take place). However, we will demonstrate in this short document, the release and destruction of Satan most certainly ARE NOT last day’s events! Thus, it is wrong to deny fulfillment and it is just as wrong (Full Preterists) to deny what is NOT YET fulfilled.

The Satan we are focused on here is the Christian Adversary of the NT that the Revelation calls “the accuser of our brethren” among other things.

With that, we cannot accept the Full Preterist application of “the strong” (the word “man” is not even there) as indicating the binding of Satan in:

Mat 12:29 Or how can one enter into the house of the strong man, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

The fact that Baelzebub and Demons are mentioned in the above chapter (Mat 12) does not give credence to their argument either. Unbeknownst to most Christians, According to scripture, Baelzebub and Demons are not related to the Christian adversary (personified as satan) bound in Rev 20. To say it is, is the Christian Myth and Jewish fables we mentioned in the beginning of this article because Baelzebub (derived from Bael worship) was an idol in the OT and the apostate Jews brought this teaching with them. It has no relation to the Satan described as “the accuser of our brethren.”

Demons are idol worship in the OT (ABP+, the CLV says the same thing):

Isa 65:3 This people, the one provoking me, [before me is always].  They sacrifice in the gardens, and they burn incense upon the bricks to the demons which are not. (ABP+, see also the CLV)

Sometimes demons are even idols in the NT:

Rev 9:20 And the rest of mankind, who were not killed with these plagues, repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship demons, and the idols of gold, and of silver, and of brass, and of stone, and of wood; which can neither see, nor hear, nor walk:

Demons represent other things too in the NT that the Jews did not understand were the curses, as in Duet 28, (evil spirits such as madness) from YHWH for their continual harlotry (see our 2nd book “The Master of Deception”, but in scripture Jesus did not usually correct them, he instead showed the error in their own “traditions of the elders” did not add up.


Neither Baelzebub, Demons, nor the Strong one of Mat 12:29 are related to the Satan that is bound in Revelation 20, they are only so in myths and traditions of men. There is no Lord of the Underworld with Demons below him —that is called adding to the word of God that brings judgment upon whomever does it.

Does Full Preterism have another binding?

Identity of this Accuser of Our Brethren

Rev 12:10 informs us concerning what is bound and is of what Revelation calls “the synagogue of Satan.” There are only one group of people who attend a synagogue and after Christ was revealed a second time, as Heb 9:28 states, only Apostate Jews would attend a synagogue because Jesus made it clear those who accepted him, were of his body that most Christians call the church, not synagogue.

Rev 12:10 And I hear a loud voice in heaven saying, “Just now came the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of His Christ, for the accuser of our brethren was cast out, who was accusing them before our God day and night.”

In Rev 18:23 the Harlot, Jerusalem, is identified as the one that “by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.” In Rev 12:10 c, “the accuser (national Judaism, Jews are identified as accusers over 30 times in the NT) of our brothers (Christians) is cast down…”

ACCUSE (some of these may be repeats because of different translations in the search) ….

Mat_12:10 (ASV) and behold, a man having a withered hand. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath day? that they might accuse him. Jewish leadership

Mar_3:2 (ASV) And they watched him, whether he would heal him on the sabbath day; that they might accuse him. Jewish leadership

Mar_15:4 (ASV) And Pilate again asked him, saying, Answerest thou nothing? behold how many things they accuse thee of. Jewish leadership

Luk_6:7 (ASV) And the scribes and the Pharisees watched him, whether he would heal on the sabbath; that they might find how to accuse him. Jewish leadership

Luk_23:2 (ASV) And they began to accuse him, saying, We found this man perverting our nation, and forbidding to give tribute to Caesar, and saying that he himself is Christ a king. Jewish leadership

Luk_23:14 (ASV) and said unto them, Ye brought unto me this man, as one that perverteth the people: and behold, I having examined him before you, found no fault in this man touching those things whereof ye accuse him: Jewish leadership 

Joh_5:45 (ASV) Think not that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, on whom ye have set your hope. Moses accusing the Jewish leadership

Joh_8:6 (ASV) And this they said, trying him, that they might have whereof to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground. Jewish leadership

Act_19:38 (ASV) If therefore Demetrius, and the craftsmen that are with him, have a matter against any man, the courts are open, and there are proconsuls: let them accuse one another. 

Act_24:2 (ASV) And when he was called, Tertullus began to accuse him, saying, Seeing that by thee we enjoy much peace, and that by the providence evils are corrected for this nation, Jewish leadership’s orator

You may finish the list here.


The “accuser of the brethren” is another way God describes this same adversary, perhaps in hidden code so the persecuted Christians in the first century (and Christians today) would know who it was talking about by deciphering (i.e. letting scripture define its own words) this phrase.

The Abyss Identified & Explained

The Abyss (the prison the adversary is locked in) = God’s judgment (Psa 36:6) upon Jerusalem. 

Thus, the Abyss also = the ancient land of Judea where this judgment took place (as we see in Rev 9:1 and will demonstrate in the next few paragraphs because of the terminology John uses to show where this messenger is dispatched to perform the war authority)

There is a great chain (symbolic for the war power) given to this messenger (angel) of war to bind this adversary.

Lloyd Dale writes: “The angel (messenger) that comes down from heaven, having the key of the Bottomless pit” is Caesar Titus (the title by which Josephus identified the Roman general Titus).  In chapter 9 Vespasian was given the key to the bottomless pit by Yahweh through Nero. Also in Rev 9:11 Vespasian is identified as “the messenger of the bottomless pit.” Thus this key was simply transferred to Titus when the new Caesar, Vespasian established Titus as the general of the Roman legions in Judaea, and ordered his son Titus to prosecute the war with the Jews to the bitter end.”

In Psa 36:6 it says God’s judgment is a great deep (Heb. tehome Grk. abbusos) or Abyss. Paul uses the Abyss as “a metaphor for the grave” in Rom 10:7 reinforcing our understanding of God’s judgment = the Abyss.  We know this for certain because Paul knew that the body of Jesus was not to see decay (corruption, Psa 16:10 cf. Act 2:22-32).  Death and the grave are the products of God’s judgment upon man as a result of Adam’s sin in the garden.

In the following passages and many others Jesus clearly states that the wrath of Yahweh would be poured out upon the apostate house of Judah in the first century generation. This was God’s judgment (the Abyss) barring the Jews from Judea (the Abyss) for a [figurative] thousand years so they could not deceive the nations (Rev 20:3) during this long period.

Luke 19:41-44 (comments and emphasis added) And when He was come near, he beheld the city (Jerusalem), and wept over it, Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things [which belong] unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes. For the days (of  justice) shall come upon thee, that thine enemies (the Roman soldiers) shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side, And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation (the day of wrath).

That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel  unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. 36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. 37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, [thou] that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under [her] wings, and ye would not! 38 Behold, your house (of Judah) is left unto you desolate. Mat 23:35-37

The just wrath of Yahweh through Yahshua was surely vindicated when the Roman army “stoned” and “burned” the capital city Jerusalem in the 3 1/2 year period between 66 and 70AD during the Jewish-Roman war in the land of Judaea.

Lloyd Dale again writes: In Rev 9:1 with the presentation of “the key” (authority to make war against the Jews) to the star (messenger) John marks the occasion by switching his terminology from “land” to “abyss” right in this verse:  “And the fifth messenger did sound, and I saw a star out of the heaven having fallen to the earth (land), and there was given to it the key of the pit of the abyss,” but he also adds a new element “the pit of the.” This “star falling from heaven to the land” of Judaea and the presentation of “the key” to this “star” are of very special importance for the people of the land as well as for John’s primary audience of readers in the seven churches of Asia. 

The beast of Rev 11:7 and 17:8 that ascends out of the abyss (Judea, where God’s judgment by Christ was pronounced) are implemented by “an eighth king” of the Roman empire.

Vespasian the Roman general that was dispatched from Rome (“heaven”) by the ruler of Rome, Nero ascended from the Abyss: Rev 17:8 (added emphasis) the beast (Vespasian) that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the Judaean pit, and go unto (the) destruction (of the Harlot, Judaea, Jerusalem, and the temple): and they (the apostate Jews) that   dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation (beginning) of the world (Mosaic marriage covenant, Exo 17) when they behold the beast (Vespasian) that was (in Judaea), and is not (in Judaea but in Rome to be made emperor), and yet is (emperor, with his army in Judaea). 

He continues “And they (the “locusts” of verse 3ff) have a commander (king) over them, the messenger of the abyss, whose name is Abaddon (Hebrew) -Apollyon (Greek) – Destroyer (English). In this verse, as in other apocalyptic Scriptures (cf. Joel 2:25 the “locusts” are the soldiers of invading armies and their commander is the messenger of destruction (judgment) to the abyss (land of Judaea, v1). Therefore, John is using “abyss” as a “metaphor for the land of Judaea in chapter 9. John also uses the lexeme “abyss” as a symbol of the land of Judaea here as well.  It is the apocalyptic symbol for the judgment and destruction of Judaea by the armies of the beast and the ten kings (Rev 17:12, 18:24; and 19:15-21).


God’s judgment pronounced from Christ upon Jerusalem with their removal from the land ca. 70AD, is the Abyss this satan was locked in for a thousand years. Other previous claims by the Jews to the land (after their being ousted ca. 70AD) were not recognized by the nations, thus do not qualify as the release of adversary.

Thus, in order for the release of this Satan after the thousand years the release 1) must be tied to the land with a claim by the Apostate Jews to their ownership to the land, and 2) their claim to the land must be noticed or recognized by the nations, otherwise the nations could not be deceived!

Why the Thousand Years is Longer than a Thousand & How we know When it Ends

We have shown the thousand years is figurative. Since it is being used in a metaphoric manner, it must mean more than a thousand if language is to be honored. Any objections to that, we turn to the identification of this adversary that signifies and specifies the length it is bound. The thousand years denotes an indefinite long period that satan is bound in comparison to the short period satan is loosed. It’s a contrast of “long period vs. short period”. The identification of this Christian adversary tells you exactly when the binding and the release of it occurs!

Strong’s Concordance states chiloi (as opposed to the textus receptus that states xilia). We think Dr. Strongs said the Greek word for thousand is a plural of uncertain affinity because the older manuscripts, like Tischendorf’s 8th edition, uses the plural that in today’s modern Greek means the male gender. If we were to follow Strong’s definition, it could be used metaphorically in the following manner:

In the Greek, according to Tischendorf’s (an older manuscript) the word in Revelation 20 is PLURAL. It is literally “thousands.” Tischendorf said it should be translated “thousands of years.” 

Deu 7:9 LXX, “I show mercy to THOUSANDS of generations”

Exo 20:6 “doing kindness to THOUSANDS, to those loving Me and observing My ordinances.”

“how much money did the bank robber get away with? I don’t know, but it was thousands.”

…. meaning a lot. We still today use the word thousands in the same manner.

Even without Strong’s claim, the text does not state ONE thousand, it just says thousand, and since all of Revelation has figures of speech, metaphors, analogies, there’s a great dragon, a chain, an abyss etc. Nothing is literal in that passage, so thousand(s) years is not literal either.

Revelation 20 is a series of prophetic visions that convey truth through the use of imagery (symbolism). Therefore, to begin this chapter with the interpretation that John is describing a literal thousand (xilia) years does not fit the genre. NO key elements in this passage are literal, thus to try and make the case the thousand years is literal runs counter to the rampant symbolism and makes the rest of the narrative meaningless.

Likewise, the 144,000 Israelites in Rev 7 and 14 are not to be understood as exact numbers for 12,000 in each tribe either, but portray completeness of GREAT NUMBERS in the same fashion just explained.

The Release of Satan, the Christian Adversary, the Accuser

In Rev 20:3 satan (the adversary of Christianity, “the synagogue of satan” Rev 2:9, 3:9) is bound specifically that “he  should deceive the nations no more.”  And then notice in verse 8 he (the Zionist Jew, the great harlot, the deceiver of the nations) is released to “go out and deceive the nations” again!

Since we have shown that “the strong one” of Mat 12:29 cannot be the Christian adversary personified as Satan in the symbolized book of Revelation as Full Preterists posit and since the binding aspect of the above did not take place until 70AD it is totally impossible that the “thousand years” could be referring to the 40 year period which began in c. 30AD and ended in 70AD, as some insist.  

In Romans 16:20, in the KJV, MKJV, YLT, ASV, RV, LITV (cf. Gen 3:15), Paul writes to the Christians at Rome that “Yahweh of peace shall bruise Satan under (their) feet shortly.”  If the correct word is not bruise, why did all these translators use it?

Also, it appears to us, according to audience relevance in this verse either some of those Roman Christians had been drafted into the Roman army or Paul was using the audience relevance (your feet) in a unanimous manner. What other adversary (satan) was “bruised” and “bound” shortly after Paul wrote those words?


Those who adhere to the Full Preterist paradigm have a serious problem they do not know about.

We have a big advantage because we know the identity of the various Satans in scripture, but the fact that we see this entity ACTIVELY DECEIVING DURING THE PERIOD BETWEEN 30-70AD demonstrates it is not the thousand year binding period:

(written ca. 52AD)
Such as in 1Th 2:18 “because we would fain have come unto you, I Paul once and again; and Satan hindered us.”

(written ca. 63-65AD)
and 1Ti 5:15 “for already some are turned aside after Satan.”
People are seed along the path where the word is sown. Yet SATAN COMES AND TAKES AWAY THE WORD THAT WAS SOWN IN THEM. (Mk. 4:15)
Another example of Satan deceiving is:

“[T]HE GOD OF THIS WORLD has BLINDED THE MINDS OF THE UNBELIEVING so that they won’t see the light of the gospel.” (2Co 4:4).
These are just more examples that makes this view untenable and must be rejected.
Proper Preterism knows God’s judgment pronounced from Christ upon Jerusalem is the Abyss (Psa 36:6b Thy judgments are a great deep. [abyss]) where this great adversary was imprisoned ….

“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, [thou] that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under [her] wings, and ye would not! 38 Behold, your house (of Judah) is left unto you desolate.” (Mat 23:37)

….. and resulted in their eviction from the land ca. 70AD, and Jerusalem is where the Abyss (God’s judgment) took place when this Adversary (satan) was imprisoned for a thousand years.

Lloyd Dale (w/some emphasis) writes:

Ostensibly the “thousand years” ended in 1948 or soon after, when Zionistic Judaism was again established (released) in the land of Judaea.  Current world events certainly confirm that the nations are being deceived by something; as it certainly appears that they are being “gather(ed)…together for battle against Christianity (the beloved city) in general, and the Christian west (the camp of the saints) in particular. It is extremely interesting that the scenario which John describes in Revelation 20:7-9a appears to be taking place in the very “world” in which we are currently living, and Jerusalem, for whatever reason, is right in the middle.  It appears that we may be in for some very “interesting” times as these events continue to play out.  It is certainly true that Zionistic Judaism and Dispensational eschatology have worked “hand in glove” to deceive the nations during the past 100 years with their false claims that are amazingly similar given the ostensible diversity of their origins and identities.

In Revelation 20:8-9, John describes a great Gog and Magog army “as numerous as the sand of the sea” gathered together for war against the “camp of the saints and the beloved city.”  (occurs after this release of adversary that we think we are in and is no insignificant coincident) The “beloved city” is an obvious reference to the “new Jerusalem” of Revelation 3:12 & 21-22:5.  The new Jerusalem is worldwide Christianity.  It is our considered opinion that “the camp of the saints” is the Christian west or the United States of America as between the years of 1620 and 1900 most Christians from the British Isles, Europe, and around the world came to “camp” and establish new homes in American, the “new” land of Christian freedom. From his article The Abyss

The Destruction of the Christian Adversary

The destruction of this adversary that is now released (Rev 20:3 “…after that he must be loosed a little season.”) for a little season, some translations merely state it is a little while. Again, this little while this adversary is loosed is being contrasted to the long period it is bound called the thousand years, so while there is no definite time period stamped on it, we can know the length because of the identity of this Christian adversary we have now identified! It is further verified by the presence of Gog and Magog that is presumably destroyed around the same time the Gog and Magog armies are dealt with by God (Rev 20:9), only one verse earlier.

There is only one place in the Revelation that speaks of this Zionist entity’s destruction. There is no parallel verse to the following verse in Revelation we know of. We have already shown that Rom 16:20 is not a parallel to the following verse in Revelation and that rather Rom 16:20 was a soon anticipation of the “bruising” (cf. Gen 3:15) that coincided with the 70AD binding of satan who had been actively deceiving the nations during the 40 year period leading up to the destruction of Jerusalem, ca. 70AD. The following verse of its destruction, however, is a figurative thousand years after that binding + after the “little season” released we’ve been elaborating on:

Rev 20:10 (w/added emphasis) And the devil (slanderer of Christianity, the present day totally delusional counterfeit Zionist entity masquerading as a Democracy and God’s chosen, causing wars and deceiving millions) that deceived them (the nations) was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone (destroyed), where the beast and the false prophet (were also thrown in a thousand years earlier in ca. 70AD, see Rev 19:20-21), and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

“and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.”

(hyperbolic language being used as an emotional over statement that means “to the eons of the eons.”)

May the Truth Prevail!

What is Proper Preterism?

Proper Preterism is Biblical Prophecy (by Steven Hawk & Paul Sauls)

  1. Proper Preterism is NOT Partial Preterism that requires some future second coming of Christ and future resurrection of the saints, because we believe the saints have been and still are populating that kingdom since it was taken from Apostate Judah, ca. 70AD (Mat 21:43).
  2. Proper Preterism does NOT violate or distort ANY imminent time statements, but rather, puts them in their proper context. 
    EXAMPLE: Luk 21:22 ….properly, it is ONLY “all things written” pertaining to the “days of vengeance” that is right in the verse! The fulfillment of “all things written” was about the days of vengeance specifically and not all things in general. It does NOT mean that the days of vengeance would fulfill all prophecy. Full Preterists abuse Luke 21:22. 
    Further, the phrase “all things written” does not pertain to ALL of the NT writings that had NOT yet been written and it would be anachronistic to include them in the context of this passage.  

    WHEN Were these “Days of Vengeance” Jesus Was Speaking of?

    We think the “days of vengeance” were LAST DAYS EVENTS that led up to and included the destruction of the Harlot, Jerusalem. Historically, the events prophetically described by Jesus as recorded in Luke 21:8-27 occurred in the years of ca. 36-70 AD. Jesus clearly instructed His listeners that “when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is NEAR!” [Near is not here!]

What is Proper Preterism?

Nature and Time of Parousia (commonly called the second coming):

Christ’s Parousia most definitely occurred and was “visible” in the events of the war of circa AD70 with Christ’s Parousia (ongoing presence after arrival) as his positional authority. Thus, we hold that the Parousia indicates the beginning of the Millennium, the ongoing presence of Christ since accessing his heavenly throne of David, ruling and reigning with the Saints while subduing the nations of mankind from the heavenly realm. We firmly reject any eschatological view which posits the Millennium of Christ as terminating in AD70. Such views overtly violate Christ’s clear statements concerning when He would officially take seat with his Saints on the Throne of His Glory (Throne of David) in Matt 19:28, Matt 25:31, 1Th 4:13-15; Rev 3:21, 5:10 20:4. We hope you have examined the important time statements in those verses!

Nature and Time of Resurrection:

We note that the majority of scripture seems to speak of “resurrection” in terms of a singular event in time coincident with the Parousia. However, we acknowledge that Revelation 20 posits TWO distinct resurrection events separated by the Millennial Reign of Christ with his saints.  In accordance with 1Pe 9 – 12, we feel John’s Revelation is authoritatively clarifying and interpretive of all prior prophecies regarding “THE resurrection.” The dual resurrection is one major area where we differ with Doug Wilkinson and Jerel Kratt who ask us to accept Rev 20:5a as an “illegitimate textual variant.”  We respectfully disagree with them on this point for two reasons.  1) We find the arguments for Rev 20:5a as a textual variant are less than convincing. In fact, we find evidence that the extant manuscripts actually support the inclusion of Rev 20:5a rather than exclusion. 2) Even if one were to eliminate Rev 20:5a from the texts, the very same information is given in Rev 20:6, where protos anastasis most certainly implies a secondary resurrection event. We therefore hold that the First Resurrection pertained to the faithful in Christ, both dead and alive, and took place circa AD70. The First Resurrection began the Millennial Reign of Christ with his Saints. Rev 20:4 proves it occurs AFTER the defeat of the beast power. Thus, we believe the Millennium is ongoing today as Christ continues to subdue the nations with a rod of iron and through his gospel. The second resurrection and judgment of “the rest of the dead”(GWTJ Rev 20:12) will occur at some point yet future to us after Satan is destroyed (Rev 20:10). Satan having currently renewed his deception to the nations during the “little while” as Rev 20:3, 7-8 anticipated. (for more on this see “Unique Characteristics of View” heading below)

While we believe Christ’s kingdom will never end, we do see an end to some Messianic duties once the nations are fully subdued. In our view, this would be the point at which Christ delivers the kingdom to the Father according to 1Co 15:23-28, having accomplished all work the Father gave him in the reconciliation of all things.      

 Nature and Time of the Gathering/Rapture:

We believe that the regathering of the twelve tribes of Israel was accomplished by AD70 and was completed by Paul’s ministry to the Gentiles with the “ethnos” being called to believe Christ’s gospel.  The term “ethnos” (Gentiles) simply means “the nations” which, contextually in the 1stcentury AD, meant anyone from ANY nation. This also included the Israelites (northern tribes) of the Assyrian exile from the 8thcentury bc, referred to as the House of Israel or Ephraim (as opposed to the House of Judah, still in the land in Christ’s day).Since her creation, Israel was always supposed to have been a nation according to FAITH rather than pure blood lines. Paul clarified that beyond any possible misunderstanding in his several epistles. We comprehend that the northern tribes were dispersed completely (Hos 1:9) and were inseparably SEWN AS SEED INTO the Gentile nations (Ezekiel 22:15 LXX “scatter”, Greek diaspiero“to sow seed”, Hos 8:8) by God’s own design (prior to the Babylonian captivity of the southern tribes) through the Assyrian process of relocation, forced intermarriage, and total cultural/religious assimilation into the diverse pagan cultures of the nations which they conquered. After several hundred years they lost all identification with the nation of Israel culturally, covenantally, socially, geographically, religiously, and genetically. Thus, Paul realized that it was only through calling the Gentiles corporately that he would ALSO accomplish the miraculous regathering of the 12 tribes in Christ by FAITH. Unlike the IO proponents, we do not believe Paul was mystically calling ONLY the so-called “lost northern tribes” since God’s reason for the divorce was to bring them back along with the other nations in righteousness through Messiah. In Paul’s day, there remained ONLY GENTILES and JEWS and a true Jew was a Christian (the believing remnant, Rev 2:29).

Rom 11 talks about BOTH HOUSES (people have erroneously made the following in Rom 11 about the Jews):

FIRST BRANCH broken off (divorced) in the 8th century BC, for disobedience (2Ki 17:18; Jer 3:8): Israel, aka gentiles (Rom 11:7a, 11-12, 15,17b, 21, 23, 24a, 30); 

SECOND BRANCH broken off in the 1st century AD for rejecting Christ: Judah aka Jews (Rom 11:28, 31),… 

PLUS a NEW THIRD BRANCHthe true olive tree Jesus Christ, (the new green branch ALL had to be grafted into (Isa 4:211:160:21Jer 23:533:15 et al), and those gathered and grafted into the true Olive Tree, i.e. the believing remnant from both houses , and other believers from the nations who would become “of Israel, . Thus, the first century ecclesia/congregation of believers ( became(not replaced) the Israel of God as a New Creation (Gal 6:15-16).

The continuation of this 3rd Branch is why we read in Luke 21:24 (added emphasis):

“And they (the Jews) shall be falling by the edge of the sword and shall be led into captivity into all nations (70AD and after). And Jerusalem shall be trodden by the nations (still is today), until the eras of the nations may be fulfilled.” (the nations hear the gospel) 

IO Preterists have tried to tell us Luke 21:24 is a parallel to Rom 11:25, but it is NOT, because Rom 11:25 is talking about Ephraim’s descendants or the northern tribes! Ephraim’s descendants were instrumental to possess and inherit the nations (Amos 9:12; Isa 14:2, 54:3) in God’s plan to bring in the nations. Nor is Luk 21:24 a reference to Rev 11:2 that only tells of the FIRST (not the last) of Judah’s dispersions AFTER JESUS SPOKE THOSE WORDS, which was when God used the Roman armies.

Further, Paul was most certainly aware that the nations would also be granted access into the kingdom according to Isaiah 49:5-6. We believe the First Resurrection (Rev 20:4-5; 1Th 4:16) correspondsto the resurrection of the 1stcentury Saints, the Bride of Christ, the 144 thousand “virgins” from the 12 tribes (Rev 7, Rev 14:1-4).These were made up of both Jews and Gentiles (One New Man) reconciled in Christ according to FAITH. The first resurrection was largely an invisible event in heaven (i.e. souls Rev 20:4) tothe world coincident with AD70.

Nature and Time of the Millennium:

According to Christ’s own statements correlated with Revelation 20, the Millennium would begin when Christ would officially be seated “on the throne of His glory.” We are aware that nearly everyone in the Full Preterist camp holds that Christ was seated on the throne of David at his ascension to the Father. However, we believe a closer reading of scripture tells a significantly different story. First, Isaiah 9:7 tells us that Christ’s KINGdom would be ESTABLISHED with JUDGMENT, as did Christ in Mat 21:43, 23:38. That judgment did not come until AD70. Secondly, though Christ was most certainly seated at the right hand (throne) of the Father at his ascension, this was not the same as being seated on “the throne of HIS glory” (the throne of David). Jesus plainly informs his faithful that they would be seated WITH HIM…on HIS throne…at the very time HE is seated at the Parousia. We cite Mat 19:28, 25:31; 2Ti 2:12 and Rev 3:21 in support of our exegesis. 

Furthermore, Christ was told to WAIT UNTIL his enemies were made his footstool (put under his authority).(Psa 110:1) “But this man (Jesus), after he had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the right hand of God; and from there He is waiting for His enemies to be made his footstool.” (Heb 10:12-13, emphasis added) As Hebrews was written ca. 64AD, several years after 1Corinthians was written. According to the author of Hebrews, Jesus was still sitting at the right hand of the Father in ca. 64AD, because He was still waiting for His enemies to be made His footstool. This “waiting” signifies that Christ was not yet acting officially in the role of KING, but as the PRINCE IN WAITING (Act 5:31, 3:15 also see Dan 9:25-26; 12:1) until he accessed the throne of David and became King (Rev 11:15) to sit in judgment in AD70. Until that time, his enemies, the rulers of 1st century OC Judah, were still in full authority while the physical Jerusalem temple yet remained standing. He could not be KING until they and the Levitical priesthood were removed (Heb 8:4, 9:8). The entire book of Hebrews (notably Heb 8:1, Heb 10:12-13) thoroughly informs us that Christ’s role was in the heavenlies from the time of his ascension to AD70 to perform high priestly duties, rather than act as King. Kingly duties would come at AD70 when he began judgment that was also from heaven (1Pe 1:4-5; Col 1:5; 2Tim 4:18 et al).

Is Salvation Ongoing Today?

Absolutely without question (Luk 21:24 et al). Salvation is man turning from a life of pursuing carnal minded wickedness to receive God’s provision (the atoning blood of Christ) for his “missing the mark.” It is the NC offer of the blessing of eternal life in the Kingdom / City after this physical life ends while also experiencing the amazing blessing of walking DAILY in (the spirit) fellowship with Christ by faith and having him dwell inside us spiritually in THIS life. This blessed fellowship is experienced both individually in private and corporately as believers gather together to worship our LORD.      



What Continues Today?

The Kingdom was established in the judgment of Israel in AD70 (Isa 9:7, 29:9; Rev 11:!5 and 20:4) and the destruction of the harlot, apostate Judah. The Kingdom has no end, no matter what events may transpire temporally. The Millennial Reign of Christ with his Saints in the heavenlies continues today until he abolishes all rule and all authority and power and delivers the kingdom to the Father that the Father becomes all in all. We think this is when all finally know the one true God. This process officially began at the overthrow of Jerusalem and the OC (Mat 21:43). The gospel continues to call all men to faith in Christ as he is still bringing the nations into subjection to his authority and rule.  

Unique Characteristics of View

Our exegesis and grammatical studies lead us to conclude that AD70 brought about the coincident “binding” of Satan in the Abyss to prevent FURTHER deceiving of the nations (Rev 20:3) and the judgment of the Harlot because SHE HAD ALREADY BEEN deceiving the nations all throughout the 40-year gospel period (Rev 18:23). Since that is the purpose of the binding, and the nations during the 40-year period between 30-70AD were still being deceived and people were still falling away from the faith as a result of that deception (1Ti 4:1) we must adamantly reject the FPist 40-year binding theory.

We reject the claim of being partial preterists because we consider that the writings of the NT apostles and prophets of Christ fall squarely OUTSIDE the purview of “all things that are written” which was only speaking to last days events (days of vengeance) that ended ca. 70AD. When Christ spoke those words in Luke 21:22, even HIS words had not yet been written, let alone the rest of the books of the NT. We believe that the majority of Revelation points to and enhances what the OT prophets wrote concerning the eschaton. However, we also perceive that Revelation contains NEW information that gives us a glimpse of things that would transpire AFTER the fall of Jerusalem and into the ongoing Millennial Reign of Christ and beyond (Rev 20-22). 

We marvel that everyone is so intent on describing and discussing the END of the OC but seem to give almost no thought to Christ’s glorious Millennial Reign of the NC in which all things are to bemade new! We strive to always be ready and willing to amend our position as new information and exegesis might prove us to be erroneous in some point. Therefore, we are not locked into any rigid 70AD hermeneutic (while still acknowledging its significance as the destruction of Jerusalem) and therefore yield at all times to the scriptures as we continue to learn and grow in the Lord.


The Jews as God’s Chosen & Special “Second Chance” as a Nation Debunked (an analysis of Romans 11)

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A Sample taken from Book 1 of:

“The Christian MythBuster Series: The Last Days Edition

“and shall dash thee to the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave 

in thee one stone upon another; BECAUSE YOU KNEW NOT the time of thy visitation.”

(Jesus Christ to the Jews that rejected His coming Luk 19:43) 

“and it shall be, every soul that may not hear that 

prophet shall be utterly destroyed out of the people.” (Act 3:23)

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. (IV gospel 3:18)

Please read this vital information in its ENTIRETY! Contact us for the full version.

Acts 3:23-24 (above quote) does not put a 2,000 year rider on that promise. Next verse (24) even tells when it was for “of these days.” This Zionist deception is so broad it’s hard to put under one subtitle, but we’ve already clarified some misconceptions about “Counterfeit Zion”, “Forever as Temporary Shadows”, etc. and the words translated to imply the end of that world (heaven and earth etc.) or age as the YLT translates—that was “forever” for their world or age, but the promise was to the 12 tribes – the Jews (Judah) were only one tribe – the ten northern tribes were scattered abroad.

We also learned that new covenant Israel was a continuation with those that are in Christ (not a replacement because genetic Israelites were and are included if they are in Christ). Jesus predicted (God pronouncing judgment on Judah in the first century the Abyss [Jerusalem]; see the Abyss) her house would be desolate. In other words, no more House of Judah (Jewish nation) to have special status with Yahweh God (Deut 4:26-32;30:1 The mystery of the gospel was that the physical house would be dissolved and only a spiritual house that would begin with the 1st century remnant that had been left and those hearing the gospel – ergo: Eph 2:20). Jesus did NOT say, if you repent your House may or may not be desolate or someday be restored. God would not remarry a harlot (Jer 3:8  And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.)

You need to notice a few things: God split the tribes (northern Israel and Southern Judah), He divorced Israel, but stayed married to Judah even though we just read she was a harlot too, because Jesus would come through that lineage. 

Also, we are NOT saying “individual Jews” are condemned and cannot repent! Repent as in change their minds about scripture.

But, Christ was and is the last chance who came in the last days of which we are no longer in (Mat 21:37;41; Luke 21:22 with Isaiah 61:1-2; Heb 1:2; 1Peter 4:7 et al). It is important you look up those “last days” scriptures because the church has missed  AND DENIED some crucial FULFILLMENT that is also a huge part of this enigma. The NT is talking about the “LAST DAYS OF THE MOSAIC MARRIAGE COVENANT AGE!” You failed to ask: The Last Days of what? This does not mean everything is fulfilled, but we should not deny what has been and MOST churches are! The rapture of Christ’s Presence in you is what you should want. Christ is Present Here and Now. His sheep hear His voice and follow Him. Those who say He’s coming some day, deny His Presence and call Him a liar.  His second coming he alluded to many times occurred. If you can’t see Him (not visual, but perception),  you are likely not one of His sheep.  “Yet a little while, and the world sees Me no more; but ye see Me: because I live, ye live also. At that day ye know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.” IV gospel 14:19-20 He came, Came & destroyed the Sodom-Babylon of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. as He said He would.

Rev 18:23-24  and the light of a lamp shall shine no more at all in thee (no more in Judah, the old Jerusalem); and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the princes of the earth; for with thy sorcery were all the nations deceived. And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints, and of all that have been slain upon the earth. (Jesus said this was the apostate Jews of Jerusalem Mat 23:34,37; Luk 11:49 et al)

Christ’s judgment, IN THE FIRST CENTURY LAST DAYS, was declared upon “the House of Judah (the Jewish kingdom, city and nation)” to be desolate. Please let that sink in, overlooking this is one of the greatest, if not thē greatest deception in Christianity today and a huge part of the deception is Christians mistaking the Jews for Israel, remember we talked about when God made the split and we know why. The next verse of that passage Christians use to say the Jews will accept Him at His second coming (…seeing Him whom they have pierced Rev1:7 cp. Zech 12:2,9-11) but His second coming in judgment was to destroy their House (vindication on the House of Judah) as He just foretold in the prior verse, not to give them a future sign or come for a special trip for them sometime in the future.

The House of Judah (not individuals [though individuals can be of this GROUP] who call themselves Jews that we hope and pray accept Christ as their Savior – as we hope for all other peoples) is the “dry tree” Jesus foretold of. They are the GROUP called Judah today. This is much further elaborated on in Book 2 of the series (available now) entitled “The Master of Deception” (see last page of index of this book – and a picture of the cover – for details on how you can get the book).


In Romans 11:26 we read about “All Israel being saved.” Many people like to point to this passage and proclaim on behalf of all the Jews in the world today and say; “See, this proves that God will save everyone who is of Jewish descent or nationality”. I have an issue with this because that is not what it says, and I hope you will join me in looking at this critically because other passages and interpretations do not support that idea. What we are saying is that the following passage in Romans has been fulfilled and is not a future prophecy – there was a type and anti-type similarity (among other reasons) of “the Gentiles coming in”: The type was fulfilled, the anti-type of Gentiles still coming into the church is not yet fulfilled. (contact us for more on this)

Once people realize that their reliance on Genesis 12:3 is a flimsy and lazy argument, they usually turn to “God is able to graft them in again” (Rom 11:23), but that is a misunderstanding of the text because they either don’t know or forget the Bible people groups, because Israel was split after Solomon’s death and they mix up Israel (divorced, scattered vagabonds who were NOT in the land) with Judah (the other harlot wife, then still married to YHWH) and the time frame in which this regrafting would occur.

Rom 11:25-28 For I would not, brethren, have you ignorant of this mystery, lest ye be wise in your own conceits, that a hardening in part hath befallen Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in; 26and so all Israel shall be saved: even as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer; He shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27And this is my covenant unto them, When I shall take away their sins. 28As touching the gospel, they are enemies for your sake: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers’ sake.

In this verse the major difference with other translations is in the very first phrase; “And in this way…” Other translations say “And so all Israel will be saved…”.

The Olive Tree Mystery of Romans 11 Revealed – that you no longer be deceived:

Just as we learned in Part I of the book about the fourth gospel 3:16 – the Greek text is very clear. The word translated “So” [Greek outo] literally means, “In this way” or “In this manner.” So Paul is not using the word “so,” but is elaborating on the manner in which “All” Israel shall be saved. He is not saying that every genetic Israelite will be saved.

The key is in Rom 9:30-31 and Rom 11:26. Paul knows that “the nationals that are following after righteousness” and have attained unto righteousness (v.30) include descendants of Israel, divorced and scattered among the nations from the 8th century BC.  They are the ones that must fulfill the prophecy of the “melo ha goyim” (fulness of nations) of Gen 48:19 and by their salvation “all Israel shall be saved.”  The salvation of “all Israel” is accomplished by the salvation of the fulness of the nations, not by a future awakening of Apostate Judah as a nation because this was a first century event. The nations are still hearing the gospel though as Luk 21:24 states.

The term “Israel” in Rom 9:31 is not a reference to first century Jews, it is rather a reference to the ancient nation of Israel (the northern tribes) before the divorce. The term “Israel” is not applied to Jews “as a people and nation” in the NT (even though they as individuals sometimes are referred to as teachers of Israel). The term “Israel” in 11:26 ultimately is a reference to a resurrected Israel. For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith (Romans 4:13). For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. (Romans 1:16)

Therefore, the Holy Spirit states that all peoples (including individual Jews – Not the Nation of Apostate Judah being converted as a GROUP, as commonly taught), in all times, who possess faith in Jesus Christ for the salvation of their souls constitute the one and ONLY (no separate people groups of God) “Israel of God”:

Gal 6:15-16  For neither is circumcision anything [not necessary], nor uncircumcision, but [all peoples, including individual Jews must become] a new creature [creation]. 16And as many as shall walk by this [NEW COVENANT] rule, peace be upon them, and mercy, and upon the [TRUE AND ONLY] ISRAEL OF GOD. [EMPHASIS ADDED]

Peter elaborates and confirms that salvation is now open to ALL who fear God and is no longer a monopoly reserved (as they taught) to one nation or people. Peter is affirming through the gospel going out to the whole world what was said to Abraham that he would be a blessing to ALL the families of the world (see Gen 17ff). The point is that we were told in Jer 31 in the new covenant God would bless the Houses of Israel and Judah in the manner we are seeing today since the first century; and He did that in a very unique way – by divorcing and scattering Israel into the Gentile nations then calling them back in belief and righteousness. In the scripture you will not find a single verse of scripture that teaches that God had a plan to change this all inclusive plan and revert to an exclusive salvation where only one nation would be eligible. So God is NOT going to again deal with people based on race, ethnicity, nationality, or genealogical descent.


Since we have already explained Romans 11:26 “blindness in part has come to Israel…”, by demonstrating the end of the exile through Christ and the restoration of the kingdom (in a heavenly sphere, but also somewhat earthly for us mortals who are in a type of prenatal stage) to the Israel of God (Gal 6:16; Eph 2:12), we do not have to expound on this verse. However, we continue to debunk the idea of dispensationalism, because it is a subtle, ominous sin, working against God.

To be scripturally correct, NC Israel is a spiritual seed/genealogy aka those who “walk after the spirit” of Christ—it is NOT a physical genealogy. This “all Israel will be saved” also applies to those who have been resurrected as well as those who are still alive in the flesh but “walk after the spirit”…. THUS:

Gal 5:16 “in him is no sin” as long as we walk after the spirit not after the flesh…. ergo:

2Pet 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens (where the resurrected saints are now) and a new earth, (people still living, who walk after the spirit of Christ) wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Gal 3:2 This only I desire to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by works of Law or by hearing of faith? Gal 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. Gal 3:29 And if ye are Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, heirs according to promise.

The above 3 verses (even v.7 alone) destroy the dispensational understanding of prophecy – that God has two people groups (the Jews and the church) and that the church is some parenthesis afterthought at best. Look at v.7 above, those that are the sons of Abraham’s seed (not plural ‘seeds’ Gal 3:16) are not of a genetic lineage, but are the spiritual descendants that are in Christ PERIOD, to get the promises (v.29).

The Galatians had foisted upon them this Jew-centric deceptive (Gal 3:1f) interpretation. They did not understand the mystery of the gospel, and thought physical Israel (whom they falsely call the Jews) had a permanent place and priority in the plan of God. This same deception, of a counterfeit Zion, is being taught in many of the churches in America and Christianity today. It is sometimes referred to as “dispensationalism (futurism that denies fulfillment)” and is closely linked to Zionistic Judaism. Paul adamantly refutes this in Galatians 1:8f, et al in no uncertain terms as a false gospel.

The things we have learned here does not sound like a simple blindness, or hardening of the Jews as the Zionist falsely attribute that verse that was to the NORTHERN TRIBES. It sounds more like God fed those who were opposing Him strong delusion that they’d believe the lie they wanted to believe, then He destroyed them out of the land, and they became a “dry tree.” Luk 23:31 For if they do these things in the green tree, what shall be done in the dry? This, He spoke of their treatment (ruthlessness) toward Him because of their rebellion toward God. Here, in a sense, He was foretelling the heinous acts they would do as a restored people (nation TODAY) thereafter, because (even though they were a circle of bad guys) they were still a green tree when they possessed the kingdom (Mat 8:12, 21:43). 

So, the next time someone tries to tell you that God is telling us He was using the Jews to save the other nations in these verses:

Rom 11:1a  “I say then, Did God cast off his people? God forbid….” Rom 11:11  I say then, Did they stumble that they might fall? God forbid: but by their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, to provoke them to jealousy. Rom 11:12  Now if their fall is the riches of the world, and their loss the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? Rom 11:25  For I would not, brethren, have you ignorant of this mystery, lest ye be wise in your own conceits, that a hardening in part hath befallen Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in; Rom 11:26  and so all Israel shall be saved: even as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer; He shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

You now can openly correct them in front of others and say Paul was celebrating God’s method in this following verse by Him divorcing (in the 8th century BC) Israel (the northern tribes, NOT the Jews whom He stayed married to in the first century), but the northern tribes whom He would use to bring in the fulness of the Gentiles (nations)!:

Rom 11:33  O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and the knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past tracing out!

(available in 3 formats)

A Critique of Don Preston’s (Full Preterist) Thousand Years

The Timing of the Millennium and Millennial Martyrs

By Lloyd Dale February 2015

For years I have been studying Preston’s writings on the subject of the Millennium which he erroneous believes to be the forty year period from the resurrection of Jesus Christ up to the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70. Although Preston regularly asserts his forty year view, as far as I can tell, he has not presented a cogent explanation of why and how he initially arrived at that view.

This article is being written to interact with Don Preston’s erroneous 40 year Millennium view in general and more specifically with his article entitled “The Millennial Martyrs” in his Objection Overruled! Column in the winter, 2014 Vol. 9, issue 4, of “Fulfilled! Magazine.” The title of this article is very misleading as the Scriptures do not give us any examples of anyone being martyred in the millennium. This concept of persons being martyred in the Millennium appears only in the erroneous paradigm of the “forty year Millennialists” who claim that the Millennium occurred during the forty years from ca. 30 – 70 AD. While Preston accuses Jordan of holding to an erroneous “foundational presupposition,” Jordan was/is certainly correct to assert that the “Millennium began in AD 70.” Contrary to Preston’s assertion, that his article “falsifies the idea that the Millennium began in AD70” – it did nothing of the kind.

Preston is very fond of laying out what he thinks to be the “flawed presuppositions underlying” the works of others, such as James B. Jordan, whom he debated in 2004. In this article, we will identify the “flawed presuppositions underlying” Preston’s erroneous forty year millennial view.

Because of the aforementioned article, I think that I have now found the initial “flawed presupposition underlying” his basis for his erroneous forty year Millennial position. In the article referenced above Preston wrote, “Amillennialists and postmillennialists generally say the Millennium began in the ministry of Jesus…” As a COC Amillennialist, Don entered preterism with the erroneous


“presupposition” that the Millennium began “in the ministry of Jesus” and ostensibly he simply never ‘looked back and/ or questioned’ that presupposition. Thus, based on that erroneous presupposition, he erroneously assumed that everything that happened during the time period of ca. 30-70 AD were events that were to take place during the Millennium and based all of his arguments on that “underlying flawed presupposition.”

While it may be true (or not true), that Jordan’s position was that “Revelation 20 is exclusively about the vindication of the martyrs persecuted by the Beast, i.e. Nero…” that is most certainly not our position. In this, we agree with Preston that, “all of the blood, of all of the righteous, all the way back to Creation, would be vindicated in the AD 70 judgment of Jerusalem. So, AD 70 was the vindication of all the martyrs from Abel onward, no just from Nero onward!”

We also assert that “the full measure of the martyrs had been reached at the initiation of the Millennium by resurrection of the martyred of the ages in AD 70.

On page 12 (first page of Preston’s article) at the bottom of this page Preston writes, “…the fact that the martyrs were enthroned to rule – and to wait—for a thousand years belies that…” Preston continues, “What were they waiting for during the Millennium? They were waiting for the measure of the martyrs to be filled up.”

Now, in our opinion, this is where Preston completely ‘jumped the track’ and headed down the wrong road. It appears to us that Preston’s claim that the martyrs were “to wait — for a thousand years… ” is a complete fabrication on his part. Were does the text in question, Revelation 20:4, state, or for that matter even imply, that they were “to wait” for anything – let alone a thousand years?

Let’s examine that text very carefully:

“Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their


foreheads or their hands. They came to life again and began the reign with Christ for a thousand years.” (Re 20:4)

Now let me ask the reader, do you see the word “wait” anywhere in that text? Of course not, because it simply is not in that text. Second question, do you see anything in that text that even implies a “wait”? Of course you do not because there is simply nothing in that text that implies a “wait”—to say nothing of waiting for a thousand years. Where does Preston get the entirely erroneous notion that anyone in this verse is “waiting – for a thousand years”? Nothing in the text makes such a statement, nor even implies such an idea.

In this text, John simply describes what and who he saw. The text simply states that John “saw thrones” and he “saw those that were seated on the thrones,” then John adds the information that the ones who were seated on those thrones which he saw were “those to whom the authority to judge was committed.”

At this point, Preston and everyone else who studies this verse should have stopped and asked a question: “Who are the ones to whom Jesus gave the promise that they would “sit on thrones and judge…?” Try as I might, I have found no place in Preston’s writings where he has even asked this question, let alone actually answered this question. So, let’s answer this question for him.

To find the actual Biblical answer to this question, let us turn to Matthew 19:28:

“And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you which have followed me

(“in my earthly ministry”), when the regeneration occurs and the Son of

man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye (the twelve disciples) also shall

sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.” (Mt 19:28, emphasis added, see also Luke 22:29-30, Matthew 25:31, and Revelation 3:21)

It should now be obvious and clear to everyone reading this article that John’s statement about “the thrones and those sitting on those thrones” is a ‘rifle shot’ straight back to the promise he heard Jesus make John and to His other disciples on that fateful day there in Judaea. It should also be apparent to all who read this article that NO ONE; not Jesus, not the twelve disciples to whom He made that great promise, not those who had been killed “for the witness of Jesus”, not those “which had not worshipped the beast… NO ONE was waiting; for they all, every


last one of them, “…came to life (i.e. were regenerated in the “first” resurrection) and began the reign with Christ…” Contrary to Preston’s erroneous position, “judging” and living is not “waiting” it is actively functioning in His heavenly kingdom (2Tim 4:18)!

It gets even worse, because Preston continues, “…they were awaiting the Resurrection and the New Creation. This is critical.” Don is certainly right about something here, “it is critical!” In spite of the fact that Revelation 20:4 specifically states that “those sitting on the thrones,” those who had been killed “for the witness of Jesus,” those “which had not worshipped the beast” “came to life and began the reign with Christ.” Stated in plain English so that NO ONE should be able to miss it – Revelation 20:4, especially when compared with Matthew 19:28, 25:31; Luke 22:29-30; 1Corinthians 15:23c; and Revelation 3:21; specifically states that all of the individuals involved in this verse were regenerated to new life in the Resurrection in the Parousia of Jesus Christ. In that verse it is plainly stated that all of those people had just been regenerated to new life in the Resurrection and that they all, each and every one of them, were at that very moment in the New Creation, in His heavenly kingdom – Paradise — living “with Christ”!!!!!

In the light of that very clear and salient fact, how can Preston claim that “they were waiting for the Resurrection and the New Creation”??

As we shall see, Preston makes that claim based upon some flawed interpretive irregularities.” Preston continues, “Notice now the relationship between Revelation 6:9-11 and Revelation 20 (Although Preston does not identify the specific verse in Rev 20 which is his reference, that verse is 4.):”

“Revelation 6:9-11 – Past martyrdom, (royal) robes given, indicating an initial vindication, a “short) time of waiting (the Millennium) for the filling up of the measure of the martyrs, the promise of full vindication at the Great Day of the Lord”

“Revelation 20 – Past Martyrdom, the seating on the thrones, indicating at least initial vindication, a time of waiting (the Millennium) for the filling up of the measure of martyrs, the promise of full vindication at the Great Day of the Lord, the resurrection and the New Creation.(My emphasis)


Now reader, please go back and re-read the above very carefully and you should see how Preston attempts “exegetical slight of hand” in an attempt to establish his erroneous position of a forty year Millennium. Notice how Don inserted the “(Millennium)” in Revelation 6:9-11, when in fact, there is nothing about the Millennium in that passage and it is clearly not intended in that passage. The “short time” that the martyrs were instructed to wait had nothing what-so-ever to do with the Millennium, i.e. the thousands years of Revelation 20:4-7. To actually demonstrate that fact, let us take a good look at Revelation 6:9-11:

“When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne. They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the land?” Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.” (Re 6:9- 11, emphasis mine)

Reader, where does Preston find anything about “the Millennium” in the verses shown above? It simply is not there except in his erroneous paradigm. Also where does Preston find anything about “initial vindication” in these verses? The entire tenor of these verses is that these martyrs have not yet been vindicated and they are crying out “how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the land!” The simple fact is that there is no evidence “indicating at least initial vindication.”

It is true that these verses do indicate “a time of waiting for the filling up of the measure of martyrs” for it was said unto them “rest a little longer until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.” It should also be noted that there is no stated “promise of full vindication at the Great Day of the Lord” in these verses; however, it is implied in the statement “rest a little longer.” Finally, these verses in Revelation 6:9-11 simply do not mention “the resurrection,” and “the New Creation”.


Every alert and astute student of the Bible should recognize that this statement in Rev. 6:9-11 is a clear and certain refrain from a passage in Genesis:

“Then the LORD said to Cain, “Where is Abel your brother?” He said, “I do not know; am I my brother’s keeper?” And the LORD said, “What have you done? The voice of your brother’s blood is crying to me from the ground. And now you are cursed from the ground, which has opened its mouth to receive your brother’s blood from your hand.” (Ge 4:9-11 ESV)

It should be noted here that the “ground” of Genesis 4:10-11 is the “altar” of Revelation 6:9 and the “cry of the blood” is the same, i.e. a cry for vengeance to avenge the blood of the slain martyrs. This clear relationship between Revelation 6:9-11 and Genesis 4:9-11is a clear indicator for the perceptive reader that the words of Jesus, “so that upon you (the apostate Jews of first century) may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of innocent Abel to the blood of Zechariah the son of Barachiah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar.” (Mt 23:35, emphasis added) are being acknowledged as being fulfilled within these verses in Rev. 6:9-11. Thus, we see that the martyrs “under the altar” as including every martyr from Abel forward until ca. 64 AD, the beginning of the Neronian persecution. Those that are to be martyred later during the Neronian persecution are described here “the number of their fellow servants and their brothers… who were to be killed as they themselves had been” killed.

Now let’s take another look at Revelation 6:11:

Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.” (Re 6:9-11 ESV, emphasis added)

Obviously, the words “rest a little longer” in verse 11 above had nothing what-so- ever to do with the Millennium of Revelation 20:4-7. Those under the altar were dead. They “had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne” to Jesus during their life time. Thus, these martyrs must include everyone from Abel forward and specifically included those that had been slain by Jews


(such as Saul) during the years of the Jewish persecutions of the early Christians, ca. 30-64 AD.

These martyrs were told to “to rest (“sleep” i.e. remain dead, see John 11:11-13) a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been” killed. This resting in sleep is the only case of ‘waiting’ in these sections of Scripture. But it is not the “waiting” that Preston incorrectly sets forth.

These martyrs described in Rev 6:9-11 are seen again in Rev 20:4 were they are included with others “who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God” who by that time had been killed because they “had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands.” Thus, the number “to be killed” was now “complete” as explained in 6:9-11.

In his zeal to promote and establish his erroneous forty year millennium error, Preston has failed to do proper exegesis of Revelation 6:9-11 and Revelation 20:4. Because of this error in exegesis, Preston erroneously conflates 6:9-11 and 20:4 into one package instead of seeing them as sequential events, where 20:4 provides us with the “completion” of the promise given to the martyrs in 6:9-11. When the full number of martyrs had been completed; vengeance was taken, their blood was avenged “on those who dwell on the land” and the Resurrection of 20:4d occurred. The full measure of suffering had been fulfilled and the blood of the martyrs was vindicated by the destruction of those who dwell on the land and the dead belonging to Christ were regenerated and resurrected out of the dead as is stated in Rev 20:4d (see also 1Cor 15:23c and 1Thess 4:13-17).

Now let us take a specific look at Revelation 20:4:

“Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and who had


not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life again and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.” (Re 20:4 ESV)

Looking again at Preston’s analysis of this verse:

“Revelation 20 – Past Martyrdom, the seating on the thrones, indicating at least initial vindication, a time of waiting (the Millennium) for the filling up of the measure of martyrs, the promise of full vindication at the Great Day of the Lord, the resurrection and the New Creation.(My emphasis)

Why does Preston see “Past Martyrdom, the seating on the thrones,” as “indicating at least initial vindication?” If there had been any “vindication,” it would have been fully accomplished. There is nothing stated in this verse about any “vindication,” past, present or future.

Where does Preston see anything about “waiting” in this verse?” Simply put, there is not the slightest suggestion of “a time of waiting” in this verse.

Preston continues his erroneous ways as he writes:

“…if Revelation 20:1-4 describes the AD 70 judgment, it demands that the full measure of martyrs had been reached in those verses. But, that would mean that the millennial time of waiting had nothing to do with Revelation 6:9-11 and the filling up of the measure of suffering and martyrdom.”(Emphasis added)

Again, I ask the reader – were does the Bible teach a “millennial time of waiting” as stated by Preston here? The simple answer is – it does not teach such a notion, nor does it even imply that the Millennium is a “time of waiting.” Because of his zeal for an erroneous forty year millennium, he has confused the time “…to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete…” of Revelation 6:9-11 with the “thousands years” (millennium) of Revelation 20:4-7 where no such confusion is permitted by the text.

The fact is that the “time of waiting” of Revelation 6: 9-11describes the early martyrs from Abel through the early martyrs of the first century and Revelation


20:4, describes the later martyrs of the first century. Revelation 6:9-11 is the beginning stages of the filling up of the measure of the martyrs and Rev 20:4 describes the “completion” of the fullness of the suffering of the martyrs and their regeneration in the resurrection. According to Revelation 20:4d the “thousands years” does not occur until after Resurrection of 20:4d; therefore it most certainly is not in view in Revelation 6:9-11. The time of ‘resting in sleep’ provided in Revelation 6:9-11 has nothing to do with the thousands years of Rev 20 as that ‘resting in sleep’ which Preston refers to as a “time of waiting” is ended by the acknowledgement of the completion of the suffering of the martyrs and their resurrection of Revelation 20:4d!

Thus, in response to Don Preston, we have demonstrated that Preston’s “millennial period” was not a time parallel “to the waiting time” of Revelation 6:9-11. Rather, Preston’s “waiting time” of Revelation 6:9-11 was a time completely finished by the resurrection of Revelation 20:4d

We have also demonstrated that the resurrection of Revelation 20:4d was sequential to Preston’s “the waiting time” of Revelation 6:9-11 not parallel to it as Preston erroneously asserts.

And we have also demonstrated that Preston’s “millennial period” was not a ‘forty year period between ca. 30 – 70AD but that it would be a much longer period which actually began with the resurrection of the martyrs of the ages including the first century saints and their entrance into His heavenly kingdom (paradise) in AD 70.

Of the results of that resurrection into His heavenly kingdom Jesus stated: (Emphasis mine)

“And I say unto you, many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.” (Mt 8:11)

So Jesus said to them, “Certainly I say to you that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have


followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. (Matthew 19:28)

“But I say unto you, from this day forward until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine,.” (Mt 26:29)

Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God. (Mr 14:25)

28 Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations 29 and I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me; 30 that ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel. (Luke 22:28-30)

“To the overcoming one, I will be granting sitting with Me on My throne, as I also overcoming and sitting down with My Father on His throne.” (Re 3:21)



Stand with Israel? Who is the biblical Israel?

Standing With Israel: how bad theology duped us into supporting terrorism and oppression

August 16, 2013 by Benjamin L. Corey 114 Comments

Stand w Israel

Not many days go by without seeing some sort of “Stand with Israel” image pop up into my Facebook news feed. And, each time it does, my heart grieves over the fact that so many of my fellow Christians have been taken in by this new and dangerous theology, and in so duped into supporting terrorism and oppression… all in the name of God.

I grew up believing that Israel was God’s favorite country (also commonly expressed as “the Jews are God’s chosen people”), and the center of all God’s activity in humanity. Not only were they considered God’s “chosen” people, but we were taught that failing to support the nation of Israel would result in being cursed by God, whether you were an individual or an entire nation. This has caused much of American Evangelicalism to develop a blind love affair with the modern nation of Israel, who they see as the center of God’s past and future activity in the world.

I believe that this theology of the “Church and Israel Distinction” is actually one of the most dangerous and destructive theologies in the world today. It is unlike many of the other “secondary” theologies that are privately held beliefs which do not impact others one way or another. Conversely, this theology is causing a great many Evangelical Christians to embrace violence, condone oppression, support torture, and is actually creating terrorism. Ironically, this theology leads one to support not Godly behavior, but instead embrace behavior that is anything but Jesus-like.

The purpose of this post is to explain why this “pro-Israel” theology is ridiculously unbiblical, and how “standing with Israel” ironically causes one to stand opposed to God. I will give a brief overview of the basic tenants of this theology, the history of how it became popular within American Evangelicalism, why this theology is blatantly opposed to scripture, and why it is a major cause of terrorism in the world today.

Overview & History of Pro-Israel Theology (the Church and Israel distinction)

This theology is premised upon the promise God made to Abraham in Genesis 12, when God said “I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you.”

israel apple of gods eye

From this verse, and other passages from the OT, this theology states that there are two covenants in the world today, one with the ethnic descendants of Abraham and one with everyone else. Essentially, it claims that God has two plans, one for Jews and one for Gentiles. As a result, this theology necessitates that all of the promises God made to Israel in the OT must only be fulfilled via the ethnic descendents of Abraham. This theology, at the core, differentiates God’s plan for humanity based upon race.

Beholders to this theology see the modern political state of Israel as the recipient of the promise God made to Abraham, and as a result, believe that we must unwaveringly support them lest we experience the wrath of God. Such attitudes have become deeply ingrained into Evangelical culture; I recall recently reading a Facebook post of a minister who said he was going to vote for the candidate that was the most “pro-Israel”, and “Stand with Israel” type rallies are quite common in Evangelical churches. Oftentimes in such culture, your level of support for Israel can be used as a litmus test as to how “Christian” you are.


For those who grow up in churches that preach the Church and Israel distinction, this theology seems as if it is a normal part of orthodox Christianity, and never gets questioned. However, the truth is that this theology is a new theology and is not part of orthodox Christianity.

This theology was popularized by denounced heretic John Nelson Darby in the 1800′s. Darby is considered the father of dispensationalism, which is a dwindling subset of American Fundamentalism. Dispensationalism is a collection of extra-biblical beliefs (such as the “rapture”) which is typically known by a preoccupation on the end of the world, and a pessimistic worldview. Among Darby’s heresies included this new idea that God had two, simultaneous covenants, one for Jews and one for Gentiles. Sadly, much of Darby’s teachings caught hold in the UK and eventually America, and turned much of American Evangelicalism from an optimistic, social justice focused movement into a pessimistic, end-times movement.

However, Darby’s theology on Israel didn’t really take radical root in American culture until after the political state of Israel was born in 1948. Even then, the theology wasn’t all that popular until end-times writers created an entire new genre of literature in the 60′s and beyond, such as Hal Lindsay and Tim Lahaye. Once their books became popular, this new theology spread with such fervor that many now simply assume it has always been a central part of orthodox Christianity.

But, it hasn’t.

It’s a new theology, and besides being an extremely racist theology, it is a very dangerous and destructive theology as well.

Why It’s Biblically and Theologically Flawed

Yes, it is true that in the Old Testament, Israel was the group of people God set apart and through whom he fulfilled his promise to bless the world. However:

  1. The “seed of Abraham” or the descendants of Abraham, have always included those outside ethnic Jews (i.e., converted Gentiles)

The pro-Israel theology is based upon the premise that the group referred to as “Israel” or the “seed of Abraham” was a racially pure group, but this was never true. Beholders of this theology read the OT through an extremely racist lens, even if they are unable to realize such a lens exists. Just a few examples of how Israel was a racially diverse group:

Ex. 12:38 says it included a “mixed multitude” and that Israel included those who were not ethnically of Abraham but who had converted.

The faithful spies in Numbers 32. Only two were faithful, and Caleb was an Edomite.

Othniel, the first judge, was not an ethnic Jew.

Moses was in an interracial marriage with a Cushite.

Rahab was a Canaanite

Ruth was a Moabite

Esther 8:17 describes the inclusion of many other nationalities

Zechariah chapter 2 prophesies that Israel will include even more nationalities in the future.

Simply put, the Old Testament never makes “Israel” an issue of race, as most Evangelicals do, but instead describes a group of people who have decided to follow God. Any person, of any race who decided to follow God, was included in Israel. It was never a race, but a religious community.

  1. The New Testament affirms and teaches that the people of Israel are not those Jewish by blood but those who have decided to follow Jesus.

Romans 9:6 “For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel… In other words, it is not the natural children who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring.”

Romans 2:29 tells us that the true Israelis are not so ethnically, but spiritually:  “A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code.”

However, the “stand with Israel” movement rejects what is plain in scripture, instead insisting that God has a very specific, chosen race of people for which he has a special plan. Instead of the God who is not a “respecter of persons”, this theology creates a god who is severely racist- receiving people not on the basis of their hearts, but on the genetic origins of their DNA.

  1. The New Testament teaches us that Jesus created a new humanity.

As Paul says in Gal 3:28, “There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.”

This passage is perhaps as clear as it gets, that there is no longer a distinction or separation between Jews and Gentiles; the previous barrier has been removed.

Furthermore, Paul ever so clearly states in Ephesians:

“Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (that done in the body by the hands of men)— 12 remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.

14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility.” (emphasis mine)

In this we see, that it was God’s intention to completely remove any separation which once existed between the categories of “Jew” and “Gentile” and that as far as God is concerned, there is a new humanity where all are included together.

However, the Stand with Israel movement rejects these passages, instead insisting that a barrier still exists, where God has one distinct plan for ethnic Jews and a separate plan (covenant) for Gentiles. I can think of no other more racist position that stands opposed to the truth of scripture.

  1. Jesus was the fulfillment of the Old Testament, including God’s promise to Abraham.

In fact, even Abraham himself knew this– in John, Jesus tells the religious leaders that Abraham “rejoiced to see my day”. The life, death, and resurrection of Jesus was a blessing to the world more than any other event in all of human history– and this was the fulfillment of God’s promise to bless the whole world through Abraham.

However, this theology argues that the promises to Abraham have not been fulfilled, and that they will only be fulfilled in the future, via his own bloodline. Such a position completely reduces the purpose and work of Christ, as if it wasn’t enough to fulfill the promises made to Abraham.

While there are many additional theological arguments against this position, it is important to understand that:

(a) This is a very new theology, and is not part of historic, orthodox Christianity.

(b) This is a theology based upon race, even though Israel in the OT was not a pure race.

(c) This is a theology which in many respects, argues that there are two paths to God- one path for the Jews, another for Gentiles.

(d) This is a theology which requires one to completely dismiss countless New Testament teachings which, very clearly state, there is no longer a separation between Jews and Gentiles.

lion of judahIf this were all there was to it, you wouldn’t hear a complaint from me because it would be a relatively harmless theology. However, this is actually a damaging theology that is making the world more dangerous, violent, and oppressive.

Why “Stand with Israel” theology is literally destructive

1.By saying that you “Stand with Israel” you are, by definition, saying that you “stand against” the Palestinian people. Jesus calls us to love our neighbors, not to stand against them.

  1. By supporting Israel as she has continually taken land away from the Palestinian people, we have contributed to a massive crisis of refugees without a home. This has led us to stand with the oppressor, not the oppressed, as scripture commands us.
  2. By supporting settlement expansions in Israel, we are supporting the Israelis breaking the law. We cannot say that undocumented immigrants in our country need to “respect the law” while supporting Israel’s daily refusal to obey international laws. That is ridiculously hypocritical.
  3. This theology requires you to reject the role of “peacemaker” as Christ commanded. Almost every time the US has attempted to broker a peace deal in the middle east, I’ve seen the pro-Israel folks take to the internet to condemn western leaders for making any compromises or dividing any land. I’ve heard preachers say that to obey the Bible (citing Joel) means that we are forbidden from sharing the land with outsiders. In fact, many churches in America actually donate money to help fund these illegal and oppressive settlements. These attitudes do not reflect the love of Jesus, the role of peacemaker, and are not “Christian” attitudes.
  4. This theology requires us to oppress other Christians. There are more Christians living in Palestine than in Israel, and when we support violence and oppression against the Palestinians, we are supporting the oppression of our own brothers and sisters.
  5. This theology is making the job of missionaries throughout the middle east and Muslim world, more difficult. Because Christians consistently and blindly support Israel, regardless of how oppressive they are towards the Muslim community, we have damaged our witness within the Muslim community. As if missions to Muslims were not difficult enough already, our support of their oppression only adds to the level of mistrust and resentment– making the job of our missionary brothers and sisters all the more difficult.
  6. By supporting Israel, we are supporting a nation that is consistently guilty of torturing children and other human rights abuses. According to a recentUN report, over a period of 10 years, thousands of Palestinian children have been kidnapped, tortured, used as human shields, and killed by the Israelis.  In addition, they have also been found to have forcibly sterilized Ethiopian immigrants which has reduced the Ethiopian community in Israel. If these sorts of human rights abuses were happening in any other country, the United States would be pursuing sanctions, or war. However, the fact that this theology has been forced into national discourse as a litmus test for many politicians, we continue to support this abusive nation.
  7. This theology is one of the root causes of the world’s terrorism problem. Why do “terrorists” hate us? Well, it’s not because of “freedom” as many politicians will tell you– it’s actually because of the US foreign policy towards Israel. Israel has become a bully in the middle east, killing and oppressing Muslims without even a hint of accountability from the west. The Muslim world has watched us support a bully, all in the name of our “God”, and it has grown to hate us as a result. This theology is actually creating and fueling terrorism- the same terrorism that caused 911. It has played such a significant role, that I hold preachers likeJohn Hagee as responsible for terrorism as the terrorist themselves.

Really, you ask? Yes. The very powerful evangelical voter block, which largely has been infiltrated by this bad theology, insists that the candidates they support be unwavering supporters of Israel. As a result, US foreign policy towards Israel has been built on bad theology instead of sound reasoning.

Want to curb terrorism? We have to stop blindly supporting Israel and start caring about the rest of the middle east. We have to get people like John Hagee off the air before he incites World War III over bad theology, and little more.

  1. Stand with Israel theology is causing church’s in America to funnel money to illegal terrorist activities (expanding Israeli settlements) instead of using that money to help the poor and oppressed. We have been duped into sinning by misusing our money and neglecting the needy among us. In the year 2010 alone, American Christians gave over $100 Million to charities in Israel- funding terrorism and oppression instead of tending to the poor and needy in our own communities.


In summary, maybe you or someone you know is caught up into this “pro-Israel” theology. If that’s the case, I would challenge you to consider that such a position is incredibly racist, and if true, makes God a racist too.

You must be willing to consider, that simply because you have been taught this theology your whole life, does not make it true.

God does not have two-plans, one for a specific race of people, and one for everyone else. He has one plan, and his name is Jesus.

While some “secondary” theologies are harmless, this one is not. This theology is a new, and dangerous theology which has created, and is directly responsible for, a great deal of terrorism in our world today.

Embracing this theology, means that one must embrace things that are not of God- violence, oppression, theft, torture…

and we must reject those things.

We must reject this theology.

Should we “stand with Israel”?


But ONLY if that also means we stand with Palestinians, Iraqis, Syrians, and everyone else in the world.